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> Dresdner HQ + CorpSoft LDC + Compound Interest, Is the combo overpowered?
Do you think the captioned combo is overpowerd? If so, which card needs to be tweaked?
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snli
post Sep 12 2003, 12:25 AM
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Personally I think Compound Interest needs to be changed. What do you think?
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scarecrow_182000
post Sep 12 2003, 07:09 AM
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When I first posted my thoughts on this completely overpowered combo, I thought a change to LDC alone would be sufficent, but nwo I think there needs to be a change to both CI and LDC. Personally I would like to see LDC's CA lowered to 7 and CI's CA raised to 8. CI's special, triggered by the opponent havcing a 0 of any res, is powerful enough that a CA of 8 is perfectly justified. By making LDC's CA a 7- he is still able to run most Corporate programs, and it would be easy to augment him through another card to allow him to run CI, or any other corp program. I think this would have the least effect of the intended use of this card and still make a Dresdner HQ- CI deck more reliable.
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Feral
post Sep 12 2003, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE (scarecrow_182000 @ Sep 11 2003, 04:09 PM)
When I first posted my thoughts on this completely overpowered combo, I thought a change to LDC alone would be sufficent, but nwo I think there needs to be a change to both CI and LDC.  Personally I would like to see LDC's CA lowered to 7 and CI's CA raised to 8.  CI's special, triggered by the opponent havcing a 0 of any res, is powerful enough that a CA of 8 is perfectly justified.  By making LDC's CA a 7- he is still able to run most Corporate programs, and it would be easy to augment him through another card to allow him to run CI, or any other corp program.  I think this would have the least effect of the intended use of this card and still make a Dresdner HQ- CI deck more reliable.

I would STRONGLY OPPOSE lowering Corp LDC's CA. I don't play my Dres/CI deck anymore, but I want to get my hands on a Corporate LDC for Taikun Raid Algorithms and R&D Network.
Having Corp LDC neutered for both of those purposes would, in a word, suck.


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Josh
post Sep 12 2003, 10:13 PM
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To be honest, I would have to dissagree with the changes, and here is why. Dres + LCD + CI is a 3 card combo, al be it semi easy to pull off now, HOWEVER 1 CI doesnt make an impact, you need at least 2 in play to do any damage. Well, you just made it a 4 card combo. But then you really try for real damage, so you use 4, 6 card combo. Now, but trying to get this out fast, your throwing away defence left and right. Also, your useing up your resorces quickly. Then, when its all said and done, you still have to pay resocres to start draining them.

Now, I will be be honest, I hate playing against Dres, however, I dont feel it needs a change. Dres is antisocial anyways original.gif
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Invertix
post Sep 12 2003, 10:24 PM
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QUOTE (Josh @ Sep 12 2003, 08:13 AM)
To be honest, I would have to dissagree with the changes, and here is why. Dres + LCD + CI is a 3 card combo, al be it semi easy to pull off now, HOWEVER 1 CI doesnt make an impact, you need at least 2 in play to do any damage. Well, you just made it a 4 card combo. But then you really try for real damage, so you use 4, 6 card combo. Now, but trying to get this out fast, your throwing away defence left and right. Also, your useing up your resorces quickly. Then, when its all said and done, you still have to pay resocres to start draining them.

Now, I will be be honest, I hate playing against Dres, however, I dont feel it needs a change. Dres is antisocial anyways original.gif

sigh.gif

1) Why do you have an opinion if you're not even ranked?
2) I don't think I've EVER seen you be for changing ANYTHING in CX.

This post has been edited by Invertix: Sep 12 2003, 10:24 PM


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The Finalizer
post Sep 12 2003, 11:55 PM
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As an avid Corp user, I find myself using Dresdner CI (no LDC... I'm too cheap to get BP laugh.gif ) quite often. Is it a little cheesy? I'd have to say yes. Before I make my voice heard on this though, here's a few things to consider.

Pros of Dresdner CI:

1) Drain resources, plays into psychology.
2) Card ditching is always nasty.
3) The added Covert can help in a bind.
4) Stops mono-resource decks ice cold.

Cons of Dresdner CI:

1) You need at least 2-3 CIs in play before any real impact is made.
2) You need a viable resource advantage. Unless you have Contracts, you're hurting yourself more.
3) You're going Corp only, so you're extremely limited in what you play (be it Sabotage or stealth).
4) You can't handle Sabo exceptionally well. I can probably name 3 plausable AT assets.

That being said, yes, CI -itself- is a powerful card. Dresdner -itself- has the potential to be weak as hell. But consider the use of Account Freeze or Corp Plunder. You don't need Dresdner HQ to take your opponent to 0 that way, and you're still doing major ditching as a result.

End analysis: CI's the problem, not Dresdner nor LDC. The latter may be contributing factors, yes, but in the end, they're ultimately moot.

So how can CI be changed without wrecking it? Change it so that any ditch occurs at the end of the opponent's turn. Having it occur at the beginning of their turn is far too abusable because the opponent has no way of 'stopping the bleeding' as it were at that point in time. If it's at the end of that turn, they at least have some way of counteracting the effects. Granted mono-resource HQs and those like Bion that produce 2 of a resource will still be stung, but that's an inherent risk. At least it will have a Datasqueeze-esque effect and still allow you to play something without having to immediately trash it.

Rant over. smile.gif


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The Bus Driver
post Sep 13 2003, 07:23 AM
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simple solution is make the card ditch take place at the beginning of the owner's turn. That way, you can take away my resources, but I have a chance at getting my resources back, and if I'm playing the generic 1/1/1 HQ, you'll never ditch, unless I got something like tithe or siphon out...

Plus, it punishes the special HQs like cyber ops or even something like hazmat, which needs some sort of downside for playing them other than something that makes it's impact late in the game (where most games don't go)


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Josh
post Sep 13 2003, 11:50 PM
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A) Verty, I have actuly wanted to see a good # of things changed, I just dont post about them

B ) Changing the time CI ditechs will just make it useless, However, what if the change was made to say you needed 0 of 2 resorces?

This post has been edited by Josh: Sep 13 2003, 11:51 PM
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scarecrow_182000
post Sep 14 2003, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE
Cons of Dresdner CI:

1) You need at least 2-3 CIs in play before any real impact is made.
2) You need a viable resource advantage. Unless you have Contracts, you're hurting yourself more.
3) You're going Corp only, so you're extremely limited in what you play (be it Sabotage or stealth).
4) You can't handle Sabo exceptionally well. I can probably name 3 plausable AT assets.


ahhh... honestly just one CI in play is damaging- especially since LDC makes it so that the CI is out by turn 3 at the latest- it's at that point that a well built Dresdner HQ deck will HURT its opponent- By turn 10 your opponent will have no hand to speak of. The resource advantage is easy- you already get an advantage w/ Mil res and H. Thalmann gives a hell of a co/cy res advantage. Plus don't forget that CI provides a cov res each turn.
Corp is limited in its assets outside of sabo/stealth but there are a few notable suggestions- Col. Ghara & attack bots being foremost among them.
And a Dresdner HQ is a perfect excuse for using Dresdner Security bots. It's very concievable that your opponent will not ever have the res needed to tap them and they deploy untapped- very powerful!

as for the charge that corp decks would have difficulty building a defence- TOTAL BS- I already mentioned Dresdner Security Bot, Hired Thugs is cheap and serviceable, and any number of corp cards would service well since CI also produces covert res- menaing that any corp asset just about could be easily used. Personally in my pre BP Dresd- Ci deck I used Col. Ghara, Jacqueline, Sarkov Combine Escort, Dresdener Security Bots & Nanodyne runner. If i was able to get out a CI before turn 8- that was all the defence and offence needed to commence a severe beatdown. That deck would lose since, as any experienced palyer would know the randomizer can be very unkind at times, there were games I wouldn't see a programmer or the CI to play before gettign my butt kicked in. No w/ LDC it's impossible not to have a Ci out by turn 3!

BTW- I'm sorry Josh I dont count Dres+LDC+CI a three card combo- the HQ is a given- LDC is topdeck and pulls the CI- At best it's a 2 card combo- I'd call it more of a 1 1/2 card combo
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Josh
post Sep 14 2003, 06:38 AM
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The HQ is a given, but I count it as part of the combo because you have to have the resorces to use it, Again, top deck and drawing or not, thats still 2 cards, and you still have to have the resorces to use it. So while your spending all your resocres on that, If i get an early find, I can still wipe the floor with you, because you didnt spend your resorces on anything else.
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KoolKow
post Sep 14 2003, 08:24 AM
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an early find will destroy most decks, Josh


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scarecrow_182000
post Sep 14 2003, 12:42 PM
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Josh- the last time I played a Dresd-CI-LDC deck I got a turn 2 find- using a speed deck w/ a great draw- and having bivouac, Anceph Punisher, and Micheal Donias in it. I was pulling plenty of cards- but my opponent was getting all the res he needed through H. thalmann, 2 CI and 3 bases. His defence- 1 Dresdner Security bot, 1 Hired THugs, and 1 Crow's Nest station. By turn 10 I had no cards in hand and my offence had been killed off. In most cases an early base find is a slam dunk- but not vs a dresdner HQ-LDC- CI. If anyone has a good idea to beat it, other than Arell weenie or an early HQ find- please post it

BTW- I think anyone who has voted for this "combo" being fair is probably ruthlessly using it to beat down everyone they play- personally the first tiem I used this deck myself I found it to be exceedingly unfun it was just so automatic

This post has been edited by scarecrow_182000: Sep 14 2003, 12:45 PM
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KoolKow
post Sep 14 2003, 02:59 PM
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Here's the best way to fix Compound Intrest: Require 0 in all 3 resources.

That's the ultimate goal of a drendsner deck anyway, right? It doesn't punish mono resource decks, and is harder to pull off right away. That way, there's none of that turn 2 or turn 3 ditching.

If the drendsner deck is set up properly, and gets a decent draw, it won't take too long for the draining engine to kick in (assuming they survive), and then the ditching will take place, and that's that. Sure, a ditching can take place turn 2/3 if you leave yourself weak on resources, but its harder to pull off, and the Dresdner player might not be able to afford it then and there

Changing the timing of Compound Interest would make the discarding function of Compound Interest COMPLETELY USELESS, except to screw over HQs that don't produce all 3 resources. Changing it to having 0 in 2 would have the same effect, except it would completely screw over mono resource decks, and be slightly easier to pull off against other HQs (very slightly).


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snli
post Sep 14 2003, 03:05 PM
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KK I like your idea, and maybe not produce covert as well...... it belongs to another card (like Military Req Hack)
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Josh
post Sep 15 2003, 12:40 AM
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..and you have just made it useless for any non Dres deck, I would agree with uping the CA on it, or changing it to 0 in 2 resorces, but in all 3?

What about leaving LCD alone and changing its CA to 9?
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